We're looking at a job opening in Warren, Michigan, just north of Detroit. Does have any recent insight on living in the Detroit area? From what I understand, the area is set up like a donut: the core (Detroit City) is rotten, but the suburbs remain pretty nice. The extremely low (collapsed) real estate prices are somewhat attractive as well...
Detroit Area
Well, "pretty nice" is subjective. For the most part, the Detroit suburbs are varying degrees of low-density sprawl. The cores of most of the old cities are rotten. Ann Arbor and Royal Oak are the two exceptions in the area I'm aware of. There is no transit system to speak of except in Ann Arbor. The area is generally lousy for biking and walking.
Real estate prices are falling. They are *not* finished falling, so you can expect that any price you pay today will be excessive in a few years (ie. you'll be losing money on real estate). The state government is dealing with a $.8 million shortfall this year and increasing deficits in the future, so state services, and more importantly state payments to school systems and local governments, are being chopped. At the same time the legislature is being forced by the situation to raise taxes. They're strongly considering a services sales tax.
This is one of the last places I'd recommend anyone take a job right now.
Cheers from Ann Arbor.
Hmm...
Thanks for the response, kjm. When looking at alternative places I'm trying to use Peak Oil goggles: is the area going to be sustainable in the long term? When I look at Detroit, I see a place that has already crashed and is continuing to do so. When I look at where I currently live, in Florida, I see a place ready to crash (and crash hard!) -- sprawling populace, no agriculture, no localism, etc.
I might still consider Detroit for a few reasons: we already know what the place looks after a collapse (as will occur anywhere else when Peak Oil hits -- fewer surprises in Detroit), there is plentiful agriculture, and people there might be more willing to listen to messages about Peak Oil. Here in the land of plenty, no one wants to consider a time when life might be more of a struggle. In post-crash Michigan, people have tasted declining quality of life and are much less likely to scoff at turning to permaculture and sustainability.
We're not sure if we would rent and wait for prices to fall, or buy small, accept that our investment will depreciate, and get started building a sustainable homestead. Of course, I still don't have the job offer yet, so it is a moot point at the moment! :)
Eyes wide open
Well, it seems to me that SE Michigan at least has much farther to fall. I expect the US auto industry to be liquidated over the next 20 years, so much more dislocation to come.
Even in Ann Arbor, where we've always been open to environmentalism and have always despised the auto sprawl of the rest of the area, acceptance of permaculture and sustainability is a tough sell. People are willing to talk the talk, but are generally not willing to make many changes. The rest of the area is FIRMLY in denial, even as they watch things crash around them. Read the Detroit Free Press (www.freep.com) or Detroit News (www.detnews.com) for a while, and you'll see that people in this area are *not* open to new ideas yet. The Detroit area itself is also fairly violent, and I expect this to increase as economic prospects decline. We don't have as much drug smuggling as areas on the US southern border, but we do have more than our share of gang violence.
There are good things to say about this area. There is good land, and it will become fairly cheap in a few years. If you have a good, steady, non-auto related job, you'll do reasonably well financially here. Michigan has ample fresh water, which will make it a good place to live as climate change causes droughts elsewhere. Population densities outside of SE Michigan are fairly low. And if you can get past the four months of perpetually overcast skies in the winter, the weather isn't too bad.
I'm not kidding about the four months of overcast skies, BTW. It is oppressive. I've known many people who came from sunnier places that give up living here because the almost complete lack of sunshine from November to March depressed the hell out of them. It sure makes people appreciate the sunshine when we get it.
Wow, did I misplace a decimal point.
BTW, I wrote something like the state is facing a $.8 million deficit this year. That would be a $.8 BILLION shortfall, as in $800 million. The deficit for next year is projected at $1.5 billion. Deficits as far as the eye can see...
A Good Bloomberg Article on the Michigan Economy
This article at Bloomberg covers the Michigan economic situation fairly well. We have a ways to fall yet.
Wow
That's quite the article! It definitely doesn't paint a pretty picture for the future of Michigan's economy...